in that they are judged and viewed as outsiders and stereotyped in a way that affects their everyday life. since im not a woman, i dont really have a right to speak. i cant imagine what being a girl is like, all over the world i think it’s tough. i think its a different case btw western women and moroccan women.
what does fitting in to a society mean? it doesnt mean you dress a little more conservative than you would at home (full on safari hat, cargo pants jjjjj) and you buy a tourist jellaba and you try to speak arabic or berber and you eat with your hand and all of the sudden now you are supposed to get treated like everyone else :P.
some ppl really think that qualifies as fitting into a society and there is so much more they didnt consider-- your manner of speaking, the way you address others, your eye contact, your body language and hands, and willingness to treat everyone exactly the same as you would in your country ( often some doublethink form of hiding racist and sexist impulses, masked as political correctness)…etc there is more, and please believe some are really in denial about how well they fit in
MANY have the idea that every little gesture on their part to conform to moroccan culture should be celebrated and cooed over, and any insult or affront to their personal, WESTERN ideas of personal space, gender roles, and personal freedoms is just unacceptable.
yeah i relativized, and yeah i think ur ish is trivial honestly no offense. compare what yall complaining about to the millions of immigrants that have come to your country and western europe, australia, etc, who must assimilate or fail to feed their families, and are grateful to endure the daily racism of a westernized country just to be able to make a better life. that dont have a choice if they like your country’s position on gender roles, gun control, abortion, or how a dude talks to you in the street, and never really thought they had a right to complain as a visitor to your country.
appreciate your position and your responsibility as a guest in another country, and dont take assimilation or cultural difference lightly. it takes years and way more work than most any of yall is willing to put into morocco as a country, society, culture, people. but if you did invest that time and learned how to be, you would stop being harrassed 95%. i guarantee it.[/quote]
It looks like we’ve taken a turn for a conversation that has nothing to do with “Moroccan men” and everything to do with the presence of foreigners in Morocco.
What’s “ur ish”?
I mean I think you’re right about some people wanting to be “cooed over” as they try to assimilate–That may describe me sometimes, but I do think that has a lot to do with the process of learning another language and living in another country. It takes encouragement and a lot of contact with people, learning to mimic an accent, gestures, etc. (btw do people who have all those mannerisms down–i.e. moroccans–escape street harassment? no)
A friend of mine has this theory that Americans or Europeans want to come to Morocco to re-live colonialism (she’s Moroccan). Some good food for thought, but I’ll tell you now, with whatever level self-awareness I may have, that I am NOT into that. (Maybe a topic for another thread?) Oh and I wouldn’t be caught dead in a safari hat and cargo pants. So don’t project that kind of crap on me!
You’re also right that the experience of all immigrants and expats is not the same. (understatement) I’m not asking that Moroccan culture change for my benefit, so I’m more comfortable walking down the street. I’m a big girl, I can handle it.
Bottom line: This issue (street harassment) is a real issue independent of me and my experience (this is confirmed by many accounts of Moroccan women). But… maybe I overstepped in commenting on a Moroccan issue as an outsider.
I get that it can be annoying to have an outsider cast judgment on your culture (I guess I’m assuming you’re Moroccan?). How many people think they’re experts in American culture because they’ve watched Bowling for Columbine? or French culture because they watched Amelie? I don’t want to offend Moroccans, and I don’t think it’s necessarily my place to analyze a culture I’m not a part of.
I’m kind of conflicted here. I want to be respectful, and self-aware, and I do recognize that I am a guest. And at the same time I also feel the need to defend myself and point out that some of the comments in your post have a lot to do with this image you seem to have about foreigners in Morocco, and they hint at some kind of fundamental disgust for them… that’s just not me! I won’t take myself out of the discussion just because I’m not Moroccan! If I’m overstepping, you can let me know, but seriously, have a little faith that I have a genuine interest in learning about Morocco and being part of a fruitful discussion about Moroccan society.