converting to islam

SpeakMoroccan Forums - Forums de SpeakMoroccan Religions Forum - Forum de Religions
#121

[quote=LallaAïcha]well there is a difference, and btw i am not defending this guy, i don’t give a crap about him, but what i’m saying is that there are too many misconceptions out there about us, coz turkey is the weak chicken and everybody is feeling free to accuse her of n’importe koi, and this is isn’t about competition but i hate when people have negativity towards my country because of what they hear without doing research… there are so many statistical evidence that has been found which proves that the number of victims that are shown by western records are so exaggerated as the number of those people living in Turkish lands were actually less than the number of dead that they claim, it’s quite funny…

It wasn’t all about acquiring more land, it’s about building the empire… we’re not talking about 2010, we’re talking about hundreds of years ago when people would ride on horses and explore new lands, & conquer them… did the Arabs go with lollipops and presents to Spain???

btw, compare the Palestine of the Ottoman time and the Palestine today?? if the Ottomans weren’t “friends” why would they value it’s protection so firmly… maybe u didn’t hear what Abdulhamid said about Palestine when the Jews came to him to bribe him with heaps of money for the land of Palestine.[/quote]
Hepimizin karde?leri vard?r kolay karde?im

#122

[quote=La3robi]These are the only countries that were occupied by the Ottoman Empire,

Algeria (Algiers) (1536-1830);
Algeria (Constantine) (1637-1830);
Algeria (Oran) (1708-1732, 1792-1831);
.[/quote]
OMG the Ottomans were in Algeria?? wowy thats wicked :smiley: aaaand they wer in the places close to where I live, coolio :hap: Not sure how much heritage is left or influence for that matter compared with that of the French :hm:

#123

@ l3roubi

i c that u used the verb to occupy :stuck_out_tongue: … ur not ok with what wajdi ghneem said or wut ???

#124

“the muslims went within the Turkish lands up to 1100 Kms, too bad our history is ignored by a lot of us, don’t you remember when they used to teach us : what were the advantages of the French compilation on Egypt ? so the compilation was an advantage !!! & yet… with mentionning the disadvantages of Ottoman colonism?..see ! the Ottomans colonized us !! it was an Islamic opening you idiot…so the french are all advantages & the ottomans colonized us ?!! …this is because our brains are messed up, we grew up misunderstanding our own history”

That’s literally what he said, however it can’t be an exact transmission of how he told it…[/quote]
The Ottomans never colonized Morocco

These are the only countries that were occupied by the Ottoman Empire,

Algeria (Algiers) (1536-1830);
Algeria (Constantine) (1637-1830);
Algeria (Oran) (1708-1732, 1792-1831);
Egypt (1517-1798, 1801-1914);
Eritrea (Massawa/Habesh) (1557-1884);
Libya (Cyrenaica) (1521-1911);
Libya (Tripolitania) (1551-1912);
Libya (Fezzan) (1842-1912);
Somaliland (Zeila) (Hargeisa) (Burco) (Berbera) (1548-1884);
Sudan (1553-1914);
Sudan (Nubia) (1553-1885);
Sudan (Darfur) (1874-1883);
Sudan (Equatoria) (1871-1889);
Sudan (Kordofan) (1821-1883);
Tunisia (1534-1881);

They weren’t able to enter Morocco.[/quote]
That’s for Africa only.

#125

[quote=La3robi][quote=LallaAïcha]well there is a difference, and btw i am not defending this guy, i don’t give a crap about him, but what i’m saying is that there are too many misconceptions out there about us, coz turkey is the weak chicken and everybody is feeling free to accuse her of n’importe koi, and this is isn’t about competition but i hate when people have negativity towards my country because of what they hear without doing research… there are so many statistical evidence that has been found which proves that the number of victims that are shown by western records are so exaggerated as the number of those people living in Turkish lands were actually less than the number of dead that they claim, it’s quite funny…

It wasn’t all about acquiring more land, it’s about building the empire… we’re not talking about 2010, we’re talking about hundreds of years ago when people would ride on horses and explore new lands, & conquer them… did the Arabs go with lollipops and presents to Spain???

btw, compare the Palestine of the Ottoman time and the Palestine today?? if the Ottomans weren’t “friends” why would they value it’s protection so firmly… maybe u didn’t hear what Abdulhamid said about Palestine when the Jews came to him to bribe him with heaps of money for the land of Palestine.[/quote]
Hepimizin karde?leri vard?r kolay karde?im[/quote]
What do u mean by that? Turkish can be very vague at times, it all depends on your intention & contention :slight_smile:

#126

[quote=mini91][quote=La3robi]These are the only countries that were occupied by the Ottoman Empire,

Algeria (Algiers) (1536-1830);
Algeria (Constantine) (1637-1830);
Algeria (Oran) (1708-1732, 1792-1831);
.[/quote]
OMG the Ottomans were in Algeria?? wowy thats wicked :smiley: aaaand they wer in the places close to where I live, coolio :hap: Not sure how much heritage is left or influence for that matter compared with that of the French :hm:[/quote]
yep hun it’s coz the French enforced their language in schools and such whereas the Turks allowed everyone to speak their own language, in fact we adopted Arabic instead of forcing Turkish on people, that’s why u have more french in your language than turkish

#127

[quote=Madridista]@ l3roubi

i c that u used the verb to occupy :stuck_out_tongue: … ur not ok with what wajdi ghneem said or wut ???[/quote]
and colonize :stuck_out_tongue:

#128

Yeah I know that’s why I’m surprised coz ders nth 2 suggest we we’re once under ottoman rule I.e speakin da lingo etc but true the ottomans once spoke Arabic, had Turkish written with da Arabic alphabet until Attaturk decided he’d rather not :hm:

#129

[quote=LallaAïcha][quote=Madridista]@ l3roubi

i c that u used the verb to occupy :stuck_out_tongue: … ur not ok with what wajdi ghneem said or wut ???[/quote]
and colonize :P[/quote]
All I know is The Ottomans la7go LelMaghreb o wa7lat lihom m3a lmaroki 9ase7 erras :wink:
Wether they “colonized” or occupied other countries that’s none of my bussiness.
That’s all in the past I don’t like to live in the past Moroccans or rather Moors have colonized Southern Spain for almost a 1000 years.
Spain is not to be underestimated if we know that in those days even England was afraid of the power of Spain because of its spice and gold trade and strong economy.
France never colonized Morocco, because their were revolutionists in the country who wanted to overthrow the Alaouit Dynasty France protected the mutual interests in the country that’s why it’s not a colony but a protectorate.
That’s also why when France left Morocco it was without bloodshed in contrary to Algeria where almost a million shuhada were killed.
Also understand that all of the Arab countries joined the Ottomans in free will because they either were or wanted to become Muslim.
The ottomans had some resistance from small ethnic groups.
Mehmed Orhan, son of Prince Mehmed Abdul Kadir of the Ottoman Empire, died in 1994, leaving the grandson of Ottoman Sultan Abdulhamid II, Ertugrul Osman, as the eldest surviving member of the deposed dynasty. Osman for many years refused to carry a Turkish passport, calling himself a citizen of the Ottoman Empire in other words Turks have no right to claim Ottoman history as the Ottoman empire wasn’t only turkey. He even REFUSED to carry a Turkish passport!!!" He returned to Turkey in 1992 for the first time since the exile
I don’t think he feels very Turkish now does he?

Exile ??? :blink::blink::blink: what a proud way of the Turkish government to decorate the only left survivor of the empirial dynasty, why don’t the Turkish turn against the government that exiled the last Emperor in sort of speak?
I know why because most of them couldn’t stand living the secular Islamic life anymore they wanted freedom and that’s when people like Attaturk came in and erased all the traces of Ottomanism by introducing another alphabet and placing country before religion.
Most Turks that I know say we are Turks first then Muslim second and you know that’s true sheref is everything for most Turks so why exile their emperor just to please the Brits and Armenians and Russians?
Remember the Arab countries that were with the Ottoman empire didn’t revolt in the beginning because of the shared religion but towards the end they revolted as well which wasn’t pretty :wink:

I compare the Ottoman empire with Facebook in a way a small group of “friends” conquer a small place and make more “friends” and everywhere they go their army gets larger as they acquire more territory and “friends” and so on.

The creator of Facebook Michael Zuckerberg is Jewish, the 300 million active users aren’t all Jewish now are they?
So in conclusion the Turks should stop claiming the Ottoman history after they’ve exiled the last inheritant and reformed everything.
Their even siding with the EU and are banning headscarfs :smiley: “Eddy Murphy laugh on” Hehehehe “Eddy Murphy laugh off”

#130

The person who formed the Turkish gov.t that we have today (the Republic) was a man and his group (CHP) who despised the Ottoman Empire and was so fond of the West that he changed our alphabet, changed the way we had to dress, changed what is taught in schools, and many other things to fit western agenda, and it hurt the souls who value Islam more than turkish nationalism, many Turkish 3olama2 wrote about it in countless texts but what happened to them? they were either hung or imprisoned, and left to die… and it was also him that forced the Osman family to exile, you can’t generalize and say that it’s a “TURKISH” thing because there are heaps that didn’t and still don’t agree with his way of thinking… but he was in power so he did as he wished…

I don’t like when people say “most turks” and then they say something that none of the turks i know including my family are in that category, yes there are turks like that however there are also many that are proud of their Ottoman heritage more than the “Ne Mutlu Turkum Diyene” one… The ones who don’t think too fondly of the Khilafa system and of Shari’a law and who take religion not so seriously are those who are more proud of being turk than being muslim… it’s because they don’t consider or even know of the hadith of the prophet which clearly asserts that a black man has no superiority over a white man and vice versa, so in Islam there is no such thing as i’m better than you coz i’m turkish or i’m better than you coz i’m Arab, but they dont’ care about that…

Yeah they revolted, because the British and French were trustworthy allies with good intentions and the Ottomans were enemies of Islam… makes heaps of sense :smiley:

I wanna share this as it’s really special to me:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbWiLUBkWus[/youtube]
It’s a bit amateur but it was made ages ago

#131

[quote=La3robi]I compare the Ottoman empire with Facebook in a way a small group of “friends” conquer a small place and make more “friends” and everywhere they go their army gets larger as they acquire more territory and “friends” and so on.

The creator of Facebook Michael Zuckerberg is Jewish, the 300 million active users aren’t all Jewish now are they?
So in conclusion the Turks should stop claiming the Ottoman history after they’ve exiled the last inheritant and reformed everything.
Their even siding with the EU and are banning headscarfs :smiley: “Eddy Murphy laugh on” Hehehehe “Eddy Murphy laugh off”[/quote]
Of course the Ottoman Empire wasn’t just a turkish thing, it was very multicultural, there were even Armenians and others working with the Sultans.

Sorry but i found the last bit lame, siding with the EU (Turkey is situated partly in Europe, what harm is there to join the EU???), and regarding the headscarf ban, it was banned years ago, not a new phenomenon, the current PM unbanned it in Uni’s and they tried to do a military coup against him… maybe you should watch some wadi addi’ab to know real stuff about the turkey today :wink:

And just a thing, i realise that in everybody’s eyes turkey is seen to be a country who sits on Europe’s lap and doesn’t give a hoot about the Muslim world… which country’s PM was it who was brave enough to say a word or two to Israel regarding the Palestine killings at Davos? :wink:
yeah i thought so.

#132

[quote=LallaAïcha][quote=La3robi]I compare the Ottoman empire with Facebook in a way a small group of “friends” conquer a small place and make more “friends” and everywhere they go their army gets larger as they acquire more territory and “friends” and so on.

The creator of Facebook Michael Zuckerberg is Jewish, the 300 million active users aren’t all Jewish now are they?
So in conclusion the Turks should stop claiming the Ottoman history after they’ve exiled the last inheritant and reformed everything.
Their even siding with the EU and are banning headscarfs :smiley: “Eddy Murphy laugh on” Hehehehe “Eddy Murphy laugh off”[/quote]
Of course the Ottoman Empire wasn’t just a turkish thing, it was very multicultural, there were even Armenians and others working with the Sultans.

Sorry but i found the last bit lame, siding with the EU (Turkey is situated partly in Europe, what harm is there to join the EU???), and regarding the headscarf ban, it was banned years ago, not a new phenomenon, the current PM unbanned it in Uni’s and they tried to do a military coup against him… maybe you should watch some wadi addi’ab to know real stuff about the turkey today :wink:

And just a thing, i realise that in everybody’s eyes turkey is seen to be a country who sits on Europe’s lap and doesn’t give a hoot about the Muslim world… which country’s PM was it who was brave enough to say a word or two to Israel regarding the Palestine killings at Davos? :wink:
yeah i thought so.[/quote]
Re-read my post before answering then you might come over as a worthy debater.
We are debating the Ottoman heritages and their influences on today’s Turkish society not the killings at Davos.
You might take pride in the history of the Ottoman empire but to say it’s a Turkish history I don’t agree with that and neither will the last emperor of the Ottoman empire who and I repeat REFUSED to carry a Turkish passport.

I wonder why…

And I think it’s lame that you say colonized because I totally disagree with that if they were on a rampage tour why weren’t they able to “colonize” Morocco if I follow your presumptions see your previous posts I come to the conclusion that Morocco was stronger then the Ottoman empire.

Definition of colonise:

extension of political and economic control over an area by a state whose nationals have occupied the area and usually possess organizational or technological superiority over the native population. the formal assumption of control over the territory by military and dominant power.

So if they had Algeria, Morocco would be much more interesting to them from a strategic point of view as it’s the corner of Africa and watches over the mediterranean as wel as the Atlantic.
So if you say colonize I say Morocco was more powerfull then the Ottoman empire as it withstood it’s attempt to “colonise” it.

:wink:

Well it’s either that they were less powerfull then Morocco or they were the dumbest strategists that ever made it in the historybooks.

Which brings me to my conclusion which is they didn’t colonise but they made treaties with other forces in the name of Islam.

I rest my case your honour.

#133

Personal attacks are a great way to have a good debate, thank you. :slight_smile:
The only reason why i mentioned the Davos incident isn’t because you cared but because i was backing up what i said about Turkey not being as it seems to most of the Arab world, that there’s more to us than the generalizations, one of which is “Most Turks say that they’re turkish first and then Muslim”, you’re not the first to say it, many before you have said it too.

I’m proud of my Ottoman heritage just as much as any other nation who was considered part of it should be, and i never say that it’s something that was exclusively turkish, in fact i get so happy when a non-turk tells me of their fondness of the Ottoman Empire and their pride… more than hearing it from a turk.

coming to the colonize word, you’re talking about this post?

[quote=LallaAïcha][quote=Madridista]@ l3roubi

i c that u used the verb to occupy :stuck_out_tongue: … ur not ok with what wajdi ghneem said or wut ???[/quote]
and colonize :P[/quote]
if u see the tongue i got after the word colonize you’ll realize that i’m using it playfully and i don’t mean it when i say it, of course i don’t agree that they colonized, it’s mad who said that, i was simply making fun of the common understanding that the Ottoman empire was a colonialist regime. It’s called Sarcasm, it’s also present in my first sentence of this post. :slight_smile:

#134

[quote=LallaAïcha]Personal attacks are a great way to have a good debate, thank you. :slight_smile:
The only reason why i mentioned the Davos incident isn’t because you cared but because i was backing up what i said about Turkey not being as it seems to most of the Arab world, that there’s more to us than the generalizations, one of which is “Most Turks say that they’re turkish first and then Muslim”, you’re not the first to say it, many before you have said it too.

I’m proud of my Ottoman heritage just as much as any other nation who was considered part of it should be, and i never say that it’s something that was exclusively turkish, in fact i get so happy when a non-turk tells me of their fondness of the Ottoman Empire and their pride… more than hearing it from a turk.

coming to the colonize word, you’re talking about this post?

[quote=LallaAïcha][quote=Madridista]@ l3roubi

i c that u used the verb to occupy :stuck_out_tongue: … ur not ok with what wajdi ghneem said or wut ???[/quote]
and colonize :P[/quote]
if u see the tongue i got after the word colonize you’ll realize that i’m using it playfully and i don’t mean it when i say it, of course i don’t agree that they colonized, it’s mad who said that, i was simply making fun of the common understanding that the Ottoman empire was a colonialist regime. It’s called Sarcasm, it’s also present in my first sentence of this post. :)[/quote]
I quote you: “i was backing up what i said about Turkey not being as it seems to most of the Arab world, that there’s more to us than the generalizations”

Let’s analyze this sentence shall we?

“You were backing up what you said about Turkey, not as it seems to most of the Arab world, that there’s more to you than the generalizations.”

It just goes to show how well your debating skills are your doing my work for me.

This is one of the funniest most contradicting sentences I’ve ever come across.

If you read my previous post the sentence says, …most Turks that I KNOW.
Which isn’t a lie nor a generalization so please read thoroughly before responding.

About the Sarcasm I don’t think that’s the right term for it anyway.

Sarcasm:

•A form of humor that is marked by mocking with irony, conveyed in [large]speech with vocal over-emphasis[/large]

If your being sarcastic by writing something and expecting the reader just because you put a tung next to it to know that you’re being sarcastic is a longshot.
Especially because everybody who is sarcastic in real life puts out their tung. :stuck_out_tongue: (sarcastic)

I’m not attacking you personally all I did was say that I don’t consider someone to be worthy of debate solely debate if that person doesn’t stick to the point.

This isn’t the point either but I considered the debate finished when I rested my case see previous posts.

#135

[quote=Madridista]@ l3roubi

i c that u used the verb to occupy :stuck_out_tongue: … ur not ok with what wajdi ghneem said or wut ???[/quote]
No I totally disagree and I clarify my reasons in previous posts.

#136

Well maybe if you respect the person you’re debating, it could be a worthy debate… you don’t see me pointing out all your grammar and spelling mistakes do you? i would if i wanted but i’m showing respect and acknowledging that English is probably not your first or second language, the number 1 rule of a debate is tolerance and respect and since i couldn’t see any of that i will too rest my case.
Peace.

#137

[quote=LallaAïcha]Well maybe if you respect the person you’re debating, it could be a worthy debate… you don’t see me pointing out all your grammar and spelling mistakes do you? i would if i wanted but i’m showing respect and acknowledging that English is probably not your first or second language, the number 1 rule of a debate is tolerance and respect and since i couldn’t see any of that i will too rest my case.
Peace.[/quote]
OMG OMG OMG are you serious, no really?!! Are you serious?
Since I’ve been talking to you I saw a million mistakes that you make and I just kept it quiet are you telling me my English is insufficient for you?
Your getting funnier by the minute you’re pointing out my spelling mistakes, OMG that’s the funniest thing I’ve read so far, going from the Ottoman Empire to spelling mistakes!! :smiley: lmao
Seriously your English is really bad I tried telling you but I thought it was a little rude so now that your suggesting that I make spelling mistakes I’ll be totally honest with you.
Your English is bad especially your grammar and vocabulary let alone your spelling.
Consider it constructive criticism.

English isn’t my first language but I speak a total of six languages including German, Flemish, Dutch, French, Darija, and Tmazight.
Even if I did make spelling mistakes, your the one that should point them out since English is the official language of Turkey.
ROFLMAO

If people will read our previous posts I’m sure they’ll agree with me.

You’re just trying to change the subject because you have no reasonable intelligent arguments, I’ve been studying your posts and they all have one thing in common which is spelling mistakes and lack of depth and subject.
So I guess I’m finished talking to you I have better things to do then to waste my time with you.
I’m at the office so I have my laptop and desktop here and I surf the web all day long but I have other things to do unlike some other people, then responding to meaningless jibberish. :roll::roll::roll:

#138

whatever u say sir :hap:

#139

duuuuuudes we r here to correct darija’s mistakes and english for who asked for that …
lets use our red pens in all those messages that need to be answered :wink:

#140

huh? :huh: stop pretending that u don’t know i come here only to be insulted :stuck_out_tongue:
joooiiiiiking of course… mre7ba bik mrra tania a mskhooot dialna.