Ahhhhhhhhhhh here there is a point…
I can not tell yet the difference when I listen bethween all kind of “d”. This is because of tho factors:
1 - I never studied fus7a.
2 - In north morocco, darija speakers they clearly reduce the pronunciaton of the “d” sounds at 2 or 3 the maximum, and I’m not sure yet how they do exactly, and the ortography of the words (because there is not a clear pronunciation). So, I need yet some training on that. I will investigate it for you and for me
About the shi / ba3d question, i’m on my investigations. I can give you the first results:
I did two complet inquiries on darija speakers. 2 of them, were born in Tangiers, 2 of them speaks spanish. I talked with them -in arabic- and after a while, asked to translate this sentence:
- Algunos estudiantes no tienen libros. (some students don’t have books)
The subject ALFA -male, 24- was born and grew up in a popular -poor- neighbourhood, with some ascendents (fathers) from jbal (rural). He is young and student at uni. He use to say shi spontaneously. He translated the sentence with “chi”. He told me that in his neighbourhood, they use usually shi, but other places in north morocco they use b3ad. He noticed that in schools, and when people wants to be “elegant”, also uses b3ad, because it’s more elegant.
The subject BETA -male, 36- was born in a neighbourhood near the city center. Middle class, he don’t speak fus7a very well (as some experts told me). He lived in Spain more than 10 years after college. He is a high level student -uni +8-, he uses normally ba3d, sometimes shi (he don’t move from darija). He translated the same sentence by “ba3d”. He told me after the examination that there is a lot of people who says ba3d also in darija, not only fus7a.
I have consulted the dictionary Spanish-Darija Darija-Spanish mad by Francisco Moscoso, a teacher in arabic in UCA (Cádiz, Spain) and speciallist in darija. It’s the best dictionary I know for the moment. If you find “algunos” in spanish, it translate it by 1. Shi / 2. Ba3d, with no distinction about the use or the meaning (its a quite precise dictionary, it tells it when it’s a arabic word newly added to darija), and it gives some examples of the use.
Ok. I will continue my investigations. Don’t worry, I will only tell you the final results.
Mad, this is not a question of who is right. I cannot dispute you, 'cause you are native, you know better than me. But I’m really interested in languages, not only darija, so I do it because I like. :okay: