Some Pronouns

Again, sorry if the topic is repeated.

Please, I’d like to know the following in Darija:

both [ljoj] (?)
more (bzaf ?) for example, once more, or, one more question
no one
one another/ other/ others

Merci bzaf in advance :slight_smile:

each = kol ex: kol wa7d fina = each one of us …
another =akhor or okhra
both = bjouj
more for example, once more, or, one more question = mrra okhra , sou2al akhor
neither…nor = la hadi la hadi , and replace hadi by dakchi li bghiti tgouli ,ex : mamchit la ldar la lmdrassa … example akhor :
the mom : mchiti lmedrassa wla 3nd babak
the boy : la hadi la hadi ( ‘‘tta we7da fihom’’ maybe another alternative)
one more possible answer : mamchit la hna la hna , b9it ghir f dar

anyone = ay wa7d
no one = 7ta wa7d
one another/ other/ others

EDITED : [color=#1C8E15]Ok, Madridista was faster than me. While I was writing he published de response. So now I know there is some mistakes in that follows. Be careful, I don’t touch it.[/color]

Ok, I try it. Please madridista or some other native, check it:

each --> I know for each one, noth sure for other cases: kul wa7id
another --> Akhor/akhra; also very used in some contexts: baqi wa7id, but not exactly the same meaning: another tea, please you can translate for baqi attay, barakallahufik.
both [ljoj] (?) --> Juj/tlata/… bihum (also -na / kum if it’s for we / you: tlata bina mchina nSouq both three of us went to market)
more] (bzaf ?) for example, once more, or, one more question --> [i]Baqi: baqi wahid suwal[/i] ; more water --> baqi l’ma Also akhor: marra akhra -->once more
neither…nor -–> la… la
one another/ other/ others --> wa7id… akhor/akhra /akhrin
several --> I Don’t know

Problems with my english here:

anyone --> 7tta wa7id / 7tta 7ad — [color=#1A7C12][EDITED: Ok, anyone it means “cualquier/a”, so it’s ay wa7d as madridista says][/color]
no one --> 7tta wa7id / 7tta 7ad
none --> 7tta wa7id /7tta 7aja

Thanks alot Madridista and Ouazzani for your detailed answers :slight_smile:

But got few inquiries:

“more” by itself? what would it mean?

what about “one another” which means also “each other”?

And “several” has no arabic equivalence? here we can say “kaza”: for example how to say “several of my students”?

kol --> It works not like a name, it works rather as an adjective: kol wahid, kol-shi (everything), kol marra…

If you ask for what it means the sounds of “more” in arabic, I don’t know if it exists a word like this.
If you ask for the translation of “more” (plus) in arabic, I can be a little bit more especific.

To say “I have more than you” --> 3andi ktar mennek

If I give you money and you want more, you say “more, more” in english. In darija you can say: “zid, zid, zid” (something like “continue, continue…”), or “baqi, baqi, baqi” (yet, yet, yet)

One other: wa7id akhor
Ech other: kul akhor or kul akhrin, mybe (I don’t know for sure)

I think you can’t not translate exactly english words to arabic, as it happens to spanish. Me, I cannot tell the difference between SOME and SEVERAL. So, I think it’s better in this case to translate examples

Some/several: chi or ba3d Examples:

Some students are studying philosphy: chi Talamid kaiqraw flsafa
Some days: ba3d ennaharat
Some people: ba3d ennas

for more as catalan said , i dont think it has an equivalent in darija

one another or eachother = b3dyatna , ex: we love eachother = kanbghiw b3dyatna

several = chi

yeah thank you bjoj. I got everything now :slight_smile:

A very small comment on Ouazzani’s post, just to make sure:
b3d is only fus7a or used in darija too?

Used in darija too, that’s sure, and it’s not a cultism. It could be possible it’s more used in north, or exclusively used in north. In Tangiers, Tetwan, Chowen… is widely used. I don’t know in south and west, because I live in Tangiers. And I don’t speak fus7a, and those who usually speaks with me neither (children, old people, people who didn’t study…)

You can also listen ba3dit and even ba3diyat with the same sense.

Indeed? I’ve never heard of “ba3dit” or “ba3diyat” before.
Anyway, thanks alot Ouazzani for this info :slight_smile:

[quote=Ouazzani]Used in darija too, that’s sure, and it’s not a cultism. It could be possible it’s more used in north, or exclusively used in north. In Tangiers, Tetwan, Chowen… is widely used. I don’t know in south and west, because I live in Tangiers. And I don’t speak fus7a, and those who usually speaks with me neither (children, old people, people who didn’t study…)

You can also listen ba3dit and even ba3diyat with the same sense.[/quote]
:no: sure this is not d darija i learnt :smiley:
ba3d in my accent is pure cultism , the right word is CHI

I reafirm my point

probably “ba3d” is used exclusively in Tangier…

noooo ouazani i didnt say ur wrong :s i meant that its only said in chamal thats all

Yeah, ok. Now I’m terribly curious about it, so I will do my investigations… :slight_smile:

yeah please, I’d be so grateful to you. Cause actually “ba3d” and other words that have letter “?” is kinda heavy for me.
[I know it’s a shame :frowning: cause our language is associated to this letter]

Ahhhhhhhhhhh here there is a point…

I can not tell yet the difference when I listen bethween all kind of “d”. This is because of tho factors:

1 - I never studied fus7a.
2 - In north morocco, darija speakers they clearly reduce the pronunciaton of the “d” sounds at 2 or 3 the maximum, and I’m not sure yet how they do exactly, and the ortography of the words (because there is not a clear pronunciation). So, I need yet some training on that. I will investigate it for you and for me :ok:

About the shi / ba3d question, i’m on my investigations. I can give you the first results:

I did two complet inquiries on darija speakers. 2 of them, were born in Tangiers, 2 of them speaks spanish. I talked with them -in arabic- and after a while, asked to translate this sentence:

  • Algunos estudiantes no tienen libros. (some students don’t have books)

The subject ALFA -male, 24- was born and grew up in a popular -poor- neighbourhood, with some ascendents (fathers) from jbal (rural). He is young and student at uni. He use to say shi spontaneously. He translated the sentence with “chi”. He told me that in his neighbourhood, they use usually shi, but other places in north morocco they use b3ad. He noticed that in schools, and when people wants to be “elegant”, also uses b3ad, because it’s more elegant.

The subject BETA -male, 36- was born in a neighbourhood near the city center. Middle class, he don’t speak fus7a very well (as some experts told me). He lived in Spain more than 10 years after college. He is a high level student -uni +8-, he uses normally ba3d, sometimes shi (he don’t move from darija). He translated the same sentence by “ba3d”. He told me after the examination that there is a lot of people who says ba3d also in darija, not only fus7a.

I have consulted the dictionary Spanish-Darija Darija-Spanish mad by Francisco Moscoso, a teacher in arabic in UCA (Cádiz, Spain) and speciallist in darija. It’s the best dictionary I know for the moment. If you find “algunos” in spanish, it translate it by 1. Shi / 2. Ba3d, with no distinction about the use or the meaning (its a quite precise dictionary, it tells it when it’s a arabic word newly added to darija), and it gives some examples of the use.

Ok. I will continue my investigations. Don’t worry, I will only tell you the final results.

Mad, this is not a question of who is right. I cannot dispute you, 'cause you are native, you know better than me. But I’m really interested in languages, not only darija, so I do it because I like. :okay:

first a ouazzani im gonna answer u about ur last sentence :smiley: coz its d last thing i read
well what i like about darija is that there r no rules as itold u before so u can make a mistake and just say they say it like that in ‘‘prendszhzja’’ es un pueblo cerca de alhoceimas :^^: et ça passe …
about “algunos” yes ur right its chi and ba3d ( in the north they may say ba3t , they hate that D in the final :stuck_out_tongue: )

and about the UCA they only teach darija spoken in Casablanca , all their lessons are made in casablanca since the head of the arabic departmenent is married with ‘’ une casablancaise ‘’ :smiley:

so fianally , i use both CHI and BA3D but when use chi i consider myself talkin a pure darija
however i say ba3d to show off :stuck_out_tongue:

thnx ouzzani for the investigation and i hope next time u include ppl from ‘‘dakhil’’ :stuck_out_tongue: dont be raciste hhhhhhh

We could discuss that point… I like it! There is no writen rules, ok, but considere that all languages have their rules, otherwise people would’nt understand ma3a ba3thum. Darija have rules: otherwise people from Oujda wouldn’t understand a dakhla citizen who speaks darija. Of course there is a variaton as the geography -or the cultural level, or the social level- of speaker changes, so it’s easier to understand the citiziens of your village than another far away. It means, your rules are more or less the same.

It’s important for me to make it clear because that is what makes it possible to study a darija and not 38 darijas in Morocco. There will be always words and rules a little bit diferent. But they understand me in Casa and I learned darija in Tangiers.

I don’t “investigate” south darija because people closer to me are from north, but I try to know always where are from my new friends, in order to become familiar with their accent.

And UCA: Universidad de Cádiz. I don’t know who is teaching there, but the prof that did it (I don’t know now) he is a speciallist in north dialects, in spite of he knows very well all the dialects.

And yes… casawis are everywhere… casawi accent, casawi music… I like the f***********g ghaita jebilia!!! I hate gnawa!!! About people who I like more in Morocco… You would be surprised, but better don’t talk about this, because there is people from everywhere here… Where are your origins, Mad? :slight_smile:


Thank you both… :huh: