I’m a russian writer who is writing a historical book, in wich events are paritally taking place in Morocco in XVII century. =)
I would really appeciate if someone can help me with some words and expressions. Especially that i don’t really know how much Moroccan dialect changed since then. (Alot, i can expect, as it was much before the french occupation). I also don’t think they used to speak mostly Arabic Fousha in Morocco, like in the rest of Arab World, because of it’s geographical situation.
What did they use to call ladies at those times? Was it Fousha word “Saiedaty”, or there is something purely Moroccan? And how were women from low social ranks called?
That’s all for now. =) If someone will be so kind to reply, i might ask more if something will come up during the work. ))
When Islam was spreading & some Muslims came to Morocco from Arabia, i believe what we speak nowadays is a result of the mix between their Fos7a language & the original berber language, because this Darija we speak exist only in Morocco, Algeria & Tunisia, & that’s where the berbers lived.
Comparing with the Darija of that time & this time, this time’s is a rubbish. for the old one was related to Fos7a, & whenever we mention Fos7a we 're talkin about a rich language. so rich that the poets did not have to sit thinking with a pen & paper, they just talked like a shopkeeper talk to a customer & produced very rich poems.
I used to study Fos7a and live in Egypt now, and it’s the same here. People say that even fifty years ago the language was different, and what ppl talk now is a rubbish indeed. But for example if to go further in times, 200-300 years ago, the whole Egypt was speaking mainly Fos7a (!), especially if we are talking about educated people. And not only those who had Arab origin. So I was wondering, could it be anything like that in Morocco, or it was mostly Berber language, more or less mixed with Fos7a, and Fos7a itself was used only in religeon? (if to compare between the percentage of Arabs, who came to live in Egypt and in Maghreb-al-Aqsa, the first were much more). In simpler words: were there people of Berber origin, speaking Fos7a as their mother language?
Thanks, it was very interesting to read. =) But still have some questions:
So is “Lalla” suitable for a woman from a noble and respectable family?
Is there a female form for “sidy” in Darija?
Are there other ways to call women from different social groups? Like for example in Egypt there are many words, that came from both Fos7a and Turkish: “Setti”, “Hanem”, “Fendim”… They are used depending on the level of respect to a certain lady.
We’re so open on the Egyptien & MiddleEastern cultures, so what you said about the Rubbish language is no surprise !
we share the same apreciation for Arabic
If you’re talkin about 200-300 years ago, i assume YES ! because :
Islam first got here by Okba Ibn Nafie (of the Umayyads) at late 7th century, 100 years later, Idriss 1st came from the east & quickly became a muslim leader <— which indicates the easy acceptance of both Islam & Fos7a language by the berbers, thank to Okba.
So if the events of your book takes place in the 17th century, you have a berber race speaking (or able to speak) Arabic Fos7a since 10 centuries.
[quote=Daria]- So is “Lalla” suitable for a woman from a noble and respectable family?
Is there a female form for “sidy” in Darija?
Are there other ways to call women from different social groups? Like for example in Egypt there are many words, that came from both Fos7a and Turkish: “Setti”, “Hanem”, “Fendim”… They are used depending on the level of respect to a certain lady.[/quote]
Yeah, “Lalla” fits perfectly with a woman from a noble family.
Nope ! ! in fact, Lalla is the feminin of Sidi, or Sidi is the masculin of Lalla if you want. the Fos7a is Sayidati, that’s why Egyptiens say “sidti/sitti”
Those Labels as you said are adopted from Turkish from the Ottoman era, we don’t have such labels, for the Ottoman Empire stopped at the Algerian borders & did not include Morocco.
I think Moulay & Moulati (my lord) count as labels, they’re almost the same as Sidi & Lalla, they’re just for higher level.
I hope i’ve been clear.
It seems to be a common problem for all Arab countries nowadays. :S
I was always wondering, why should we feel ourselves a sort of intellectual bores when we apreciate Fos7a to slangs! While it is actually something normal to prefer it, it’s a literary language! For a person who spoke only Fos7a when first came to Egypt, what can I say… I had a linguistic shock.
Good to know. Much easier for me. =)
Thanks alot once again, you were really very helpful. )))
While it is actually something normal to prefer it, it’s a literary language! For a person who spoke only Fos7a when first came to Egypt, what can I say… I had a linguistic shock.