what does b7ali mean? and how is it different from fhalek? (eg. sir fhalek)

  • i would like an explanation of the differences between the endings: -ni and -li, example isma3ni and golili

Thankssss :smiley:

7al = manner,
bi 7ali = in my manner / like me ### fi 7ali = on my own

b’7ali / b’7alek / b’7alna = like me / like you / like us…etc
f’7ali / f’7alek / f’7alna = on my own / on your own / on our own <<< is there such thing as “our own”? :blush:

Thats supposed to be the difference, but practically there’s no difference, we use them both randomly, each for the 2 meanings…

Note: b’7al b’7al or f’7al f’7al = “the same”. EX: person1: u want a chocolate icecream, or strawberry one ?
person2: it doesn’t matter, b’7al b’7al

“li” & “ni” :
there are acts that people do “for” you, & acts that people do “to” you, when talking about an act done for you, you refer to yourself with “li” (litterally means “for me”), & when talkin about an act done to you you refer to yourself with “ni” (litterally means “to me”).

Examples for acts done to you:

  • sma3ni = listen to me
  • drabni = beat me
  • 7garni = underestimate me
  • jra7ni = hurted me
  • dawini = heal me
  • 3tini = give me

Examples for acts done for you:

  • golli = tell me
  • saweb li = fix to me
  • shrili = buy me/to me
  • jib li = bring me/to me
  • shra7 li = explain to me
  • kteb li = write me/to me

Note: “li” is often said as “liya”

I hope i explained this well, i feel like sth is missing there :bluch:

Actually, “jra7ni” would be “hurt me”; “hurted me” is a back formation which, though logical, defies English morphology which is, alas, fraught with exceptions.

wa lakin ash ghangul lik; kif kif, yak?

THNK YOU PB, again a great explanation.

LOL ummaryam my colleague, we linguists love the pedantic details but ma3lich my friend, let it go :smiley:

also, being the curious learner i am, i encountered another sentence that i’m unsure of: 3tini chber tissa3 malki lass9a fiya, i’m wondering if its an insult since it contains “malki”.

Anyway thanks a lot

lalla Aicha, I would translate your query as, "Give me (a hand’s span worth of) space! What’s with this grabbing on to me (which you refuse to let go of)… That’s the pedantic interpretation. “Malki” in that context does seem a little pejorative in that it means, “What is wrong with You” …why won’t you let go. Maybe the writer needs some elbow room.

And I am afraid that it is impossible for me to just let it go, my linguist friend, try as I might…

'Malki" is not always pejorative. It can be a simple inquiry as to what is bothering you, but the context suggests that the particular meaning intended is slightly pushy.

you’re right, i think i just confused it because verbs in Arabic/Darija are always in Past.

Tbarkallah 3la UmMaryam :okay:

I’ll just add that “3tini chber tissa3” doesn’t count litterally, it means “get away from me / leave me alone”

Chukran bzaf bzaf ummaryam :slight_smile: these explanations of yours and of others don’t go to waste as i note all these down in my darijatul maghrbiya notebook :smiley: jzakallah kheir for the input :hap:

All the best,

Soooo, I got it right? Chbir is, literally, a hands-span? Yeah!!! …when we say, “give me some elbow room” that is the same kind of saying which doesn’t exactly mean what it says literally.

I’ve also heard people say, “Allahuma al3itiqar” and just plain old, “3atini tiss3a!” which mean, respectively, “Oh, just leave it alone…let it be.” and “Get out of my face!”…

I once made the Fus7alized mistake of telling some young boys who were having a great time following me around and calling me such nonsense as “ya 3usfuury!” and some other flirtatious nonsense which my brain has since repressed, “ibta3eed minny!” I kid you not, the young adolescents of XXXXX (while I was on fellowship) stalked me and made such fun of me as is not to be imagined, all the while running away after mimicking my formalized response to their, well, whatever it was…it was long ago and far away.

All in all, I made out better than a friend of mine who, having been recently in Egypt, made the shocking mistake of saying, “Khallisny!”, which we only later found out does not mean “leave me alone!” in Morocco…

Ah, and the pedant in me forgot what she was doing… when I said that we don’t say, “hurted me” as the translation of “jra7ni” I neglected to mention the no doubt obvious fact that what it actually means is, “he hurt me”, as opposed to “she hurt me”, which would be, “jra7atni”… and I do believe that they often say, “wash tjra7ti?” as an inquiry meaning, “Oh no, did you get hurt”… that’s sort of a passive construction, like the “Ju Ri 7a” of Fus7a.

LOL ummaryam, thanks for sharing that with us, but just a few questions if you don’t mind, what does “3usfury” mean? and what does “khallisny” imply in Morocco? + what makes “ibta3eed minny!” a-worth-mocking expression?

thanks in advance

[quote=LallaAïcha]LOL ummaryam, thanks for sharing that with us, but just a few questions if you don’t mind, what does “3usfury” mean? and what does “khallisny” imply in Morocco? + what makes “ibta3eed minny!” a-worth-mocking expression?

thanks in advance[/quote]
3usfury = my bird
khallisni = in fos7a: free me - in Moroccan Darija: pay me - Egyptien/syrian: quickly <<<but its not polite & its close to “free me”

Ibta3id minni = get away from me, “ba3ed mnni” in Darija, if he’s a lil kid, he probably laughed at her because first we don’t speak Fos7a in the street, & then maybe because of the forign accent.

peace :wave:

Thanks PaperBird, wllah m3ndi mansalek :smiley:
Salamu 3likom.

I think “3uSfurry” is more like, “my beloved little sparrow”. They were merciless with me, truth be told. Yes Yes… my main Prof. used to tell me that there was nothing in my pronunciation nor in my reading aloud or 3eraaab ul Qur’an which said I wasn’t an Arab… “wa lakin alKhaT, ya XXXX; alKhaT.” These many years later I am still shy to hand write messages in Arabic. Really, it was a huge compliment, all things considered.

I remember him calling me into his office when I decided to go to the Moroccan fellowship rather than CASA , which is actually a fellowship in Cairo. We were never allowed to speak English in the department, nor anything at all but Fus7a. I still, till this day, cannot speak to that man in English… anyway, he told me, “Kunny wa3eeya, ya Habeebaty; kunny wa3eeya.”

And then I wound up attracting the attention of scores of adolescent boys who wanted to walk me to the hotel, show me such and such a place; you get the idea. I spent most of that fellowship holed up in my hotel room. The boys were absolutely reacting to my, at that time, very Medieval Arabic; I knew no Moroccan, really, until years later.

yeah, “sparrow” is more specified than “bird”…actually, sparrow means “3usfur”, bird means “ta’ir” or “tayr”.

Tha’s in Fos7a…
In Darija: sparrow = “farkh” / “frayyekh” (lil sparrow) - bird = “tayr” “twiyyer” (lil bird)
Note: “farkh” in Fos7a means “baby bird”

Can you say my name in Fos7a :^^: